Newbie layout question please help

I am new to ASP.NET, but not to ASP or Visual Basic.
I have read much of ASP.NET unleashed first addition. It all looks neat,
but I don't understand several things.

One thing in particular is that I laid out all of my controls on a form that
took a long time to set up--lots of fields. I did this with grid layout on.
So this makes absolute positioning, which is cool, but..

* If the user changes the browser text size the text overruns other items
* There is no way it seems to use a validation summary control or add
includeheaders to the top because it won't move the page down.

Am I missing something?

Do most people use the grid layout or not?

If I should use flow layout instead, then do I need to use tables and such
or does the IDE make them for me?

Also if I should have used flow layout, then how do I convert my existing
form to flow layout so that it will move it down for things above like the
validationsummary, etc.?

Are usercontrols, etc only good if you are in flow mode?

Please give me a general overview of this and how I should go about it.

Thanks,

ShaneI dislike grid layout.

The biggest problem, is that if you have dynamicly sized controls (e.g a
grid), you can't know in advance how much space you may need for it. A grid
may have 3 rows or 30. How do you know where to put the controls that are
supposed to go underneath it?

Another thing is that IE has issues with properly interpreting absolute
positioning under certain conditions.

To get proper layout, you can use tables, or whatever elements you require
to create your page.

To convert what you have now, change the form to FlowLayous. You will have
to redrag all your controls, in order for them to lose all the absolute
positioning information. So just select a control, and drag it elsewhere on
the form - that should do it. Alternatively, you can switch to HTML view,
and delete everything in they 'style' attribute of each control that refers
to its position.

"SStory >" <Shane_Story@.online.msn.com <remove the 'online.' to send me
mail> wrote in message news:upOqcJrVDHA.2896@.tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> I am new to ASP.NET, but not to ASP or Visual Basic.
> I have read much of ASP.NET unleashed first addition. It all looks neat,
> but I don't understand several things.
> One thing in particular is that I laid out all of my controls on a form
that
> took a long time to set up--lots of fields. I did this with grid layout
on.
> So this makes absolute positioning, which is cool, but..
> * If the user changes the browser text size the text overruns other items
> * There is no way it seems to use a validation summary control or add
> includeheaders to the top because it won't move the page down.
> Am I missing something?
> Do most people use the grid layout or not?
> If I should use flow layout instead, then do I need to use tables and such
> or does the IDE make them for me?
> Also if I should have used flow layout, then how do I convert my existing
> form to flow layout so that it will move it down for things above like the
> validationsummary, etc.?
> Are usercontrols, etc only good if you are in flow mode?
> Please give me a general overview of this and how I should go about it.
> Thanks,
> Shane
I only use flow layout. Grid layout can be a real bear to work with and
absolute positioning is very tricky and not supported in older browsers.
The resizing thing you've discovered is another pain.

To convert to flow layout, just change the pageLayout property. I've
found that you sometimes need to slightly move each control after you
make the change to get it to snap to the new layout.

You'll need tables to align everything, just like in plain old HTML.

HTH
Barry

*** Sent via Developersdex http://www.developersdex.com ***
Don't just participate in USENET...get rewarded for it!
Thanks--my problems exactly,
but you could you explain to me if I should use panels or placeholders and
exatly what those are and how they work...

I am still vague on it all.

Thanks for everything...

Shane

"Marina" <zlatkinam@.nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:#zj44GsVDHA.2328@.TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> I dislike grid layout.
> The biggest problem, is that if you have dynamicly sized controls (e.g a
> grid), you can't know in advance how much space you may need for it. A
grid
> may have 3 rows or 30. How do you know where to put the controls that are
> supposed to go underneath it?
> Another thing is that IE has issues with properly interpreting absolute
> positioning under certain conditions.
> To get proper layout, you can use tables, or whatever elements you require
> to create your page.
> To convert what you have now, change the form to FlowLayous. You will
have
> to redrag all your controls, in order for them to lose all the absolute
> positioning information. So just select a control, and drag it elsewhere
on
> the form - that should do it. Alternatively, you can switch to HTML view,
> and delete everything in they 'style' attribute of each control that
refers
> to its position.
> "SStory >" <Shane_Story@.online.msn.com <remove the 'online.' to send me
> mail> wrote in message news:upOqcJrVDHA.2896@.tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > I am new to ASP.NET, but not to ASP or Visual Basic.
> > I have read much of ASP.NET unleashed first addition. It all looks
neat,
> > but I don't understand several things.
> > One thing in particular is that I laid out all of my controls on a form
> that
> > took a long time to set up--lots of fields. I did this with grid layout
> on.
> > So this makes absolute positioning, which is cool, but..
> > * If the user changes the browser text size the text overruns other
items
> > * There is no way it seems to use a validation summary control or add
> > includeheaders to the top because it won't move the page down.
> > Am I missing something?
> > Do most people use the grid layout or not?
> > If I should use flow layout instead, then do I need to use tables and
such
> > or does the IDE make them for me?
> > Also if I should have used flow layout, then how do I convert my
existing
> > form to flow layout so that it will move it down for things above like
the
> > validationsummary, etc.?
> > Are usercontrols, etc only good if you are in flow mode?
> > Please give me a general overview of this and how I should go about it.
> > Thanks,
> > Shane
Then what do you do to account for the issues I described below or do you
just not care if the user changes browser text size to Larger and everything
overlaps?

Why would anyone ever use grid layout if there is no flexibility of
flow--like growing and shrinking.
You couldn't use the validation summary control in this fashion or an
include at the top right?
Or do most people use frames to get around the header include issue?

I was wondering do sites like gotnet.com use grid layout or flowlayout to do
the neat stuff they have there?

I am also unclear on Panel and Placeholder controls--when do I use them and
how are they affected by the grid layout--I imagine they wouldn't grow or
shrink correctly.

Thanks in Advance,

Shane

"Kevin Spencer" <kevin@.takempis.com> wrote in message
news:#Y9CDnrVDHA.3332@.tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> The only difference is that grid layout uses absolute positioning (via
CSS),
> and flow layout does not.
> --
> HTH,
> Kevin Spencer
> Microsoft MVP
> .Net Developer
> http://www.takempis.com
> Complex things are made up of
> lots of simple things.
> "SStory >" <Shane_Story@.online.msn.com <remove the 'online.' to send me
> mail> wrote in message news:upOqcJrVDHA.2896@.tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > I am new to ASP.NET, but not to ASP or Visual Basic.
> > I have read much of ASP.NET unleashed first addition. It all looks
neat,
> > but I don't understand several things.
> > One thing in particular is that I laid out all of my controls on a form
> that
> > took a long time to set up--lots of fields. I did this with grid layout
> on.
> > So this makes absolute positioning, which is cool, but..
> > * If the user changes the browser text size the text overruns other
items
> > * There is no way it seems to use a validation summary control or add
> > includeheaders to the top because it won't move the page down.
> > Am I missing something?
> > Do most people use the grid layout or not?
> > If I should use flow layout instead, then do I need to use tables and
such
> > or does the IDE make them for me?
> > Also if I should have used flow layout, then how do I convert my
existing
> > form to flow layout so that it will move it down for things above like
the
> > validationsummary, etc.?
> > Are usercontrols, etc only good if you are in flow mode?
> > Please give me a general overview of this and how I should go about it.
> > Thanks,
> > Shane
Thanks Barry.

I am still wondering about Panel and Placeholder controls--do I just use
those in flow mode?

Also while I have someone to ask is there a simple way to reset tab order in
webforms--like there is in Win Forms?
I was having to go through one control after another--yuk.

Thanks in advance,

"Barry" <barrygilbert@.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:On1IaasVDHA.484@.TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> I only use flow layout. Grid layout can be a real bear to work with and
> absolute positioning is very tricky and not supported in older browsers.
> The resizing thing you've discovered is another pain.
> To convert to flow layout, just change the pageLayout property. I've
> found that you sometimes need to slightly move each control after you
> make the change to get it to snap to the new layout.
> You'll need tables to align everything, just like in plain old HTML.
> HTH
> Barry
>
> *** Sent via Developersdex http://www.developersdex.com ***
> Don't just participate in USENET...get rewarded for it!
Both panels and placeholders aren't directly related to which type of layout
you want. They can be used in both for the same purpose.

Panels are basically used for grouping controls. That way if you want to
make a group of controls invisible, you can make the panel they are in
invisible, thus making everything inside it invisible. A Panel basically is
a 'div' tag once rendered in HTML.

A placeholder can be handy when you need to dynamically load controls into
specific locations.
For example, if you need to add a textbox at runtime, but you don't want to
add it to end of the Controls collection - but in a specific location in the
middle of the page. By adding it to the Controls collection of a
placeholder - you are basically just putting your textbox in the place
holder's place. The placeholder may have multiple controls in it.

But again, neitehr of these controls are directly related to the layout type
of the page.

"SStory >" <Shane_Story@.online.msn.com <remove the 'online.' to send me
mail> wrote in message news:OGABAbsVDHA.1832@.TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Thanks--my problems exactly,
> but you could you explain to me if I should use panels or placeholders and
> exatly what those are and how they work...
> I am still vague on it all.
> Thanks for everything...
> Shane
> "Marina" <zlatkinam@.nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:#zj44GsVDHA.2328@.TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > I dislike grid layout.
> > The biggest problem, is that if you have dynamicly sized controls (e.g a
> > grid), you can't know in advance how much space you may need for it. A
> grid
> > may have 3 rows or 30. How do you know where to put the controls that
are
> > supposed to go underneath it?
> > Another thing is that IE has issues with properly interpreting absolute
> > positioning under certain conditions.
> > To get proper layout, you can use tables, or whatever elements you
require
> > to create your page.
> > To convert what you have now, change the form to FlowLayous. You will
> have
> > to redrag all your controls, in order for them to lose all the absolute
> > positioning information. So just select a control, and drag it
elsewhere
> on
> > the form - that should do it. Alternatively, you can switch to HTML
view,
> > and delete everything in they 'style' attribute of each control that
> refers
> > to its position.
> > "SStory >" <Shane_Story@.online.msn.com <remove the 'online.' to send me
> > mail> wrote in message news:upOqcJrVDHA.2896@.tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > > I am new to ASP.NET, but not to ASP or Visual Basic.
> > > I have read much of ASP.NET unleashed first addition. It all looks
> neat,
> > > but I don't understand several things.
> > > > One thing in particular is that I laid out all of my controls on a
form
> > that
> > > took a long time to set up--lots of fields. I did this with grid
layout
> > on.
> > > So this makes absolute positioning, which is cool, but..
> > > > * If the user changes the browser text size the text overruns other
> items
> > > * There is no way it seems to use a validation summary control or add
> > > includeheaders to the top because it won't move the page down.
> > > > Am I missing something?
> > > > Do most people use the grid layout or not?
> > > > If I should use flow layout instead, then do I need to use tables and
> such
> > > or does the IDE make them for me?
> > > > Also if I should have used flow layout, then how do I convert my
> existing
> > > form to flow layout so that it will move it down for things above like
> the
> > > validationsummary, etc.?
> > > > Are usercontrols, etc only good if you are in flow mode?
> > > > Please give me a general overview of this and how I should go about
it.
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Shane
> >
Thanks Marina,

But if I put a panel on a grid layout and then hide--won't it still take up
the same amout of space and the other controls still be in there place??
i.e--leave a big empty hole... Thus making flow layout necessary?

Shane

"Marina" <zlatkinam@.nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Of$qmlsVDHA.3376@.tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Both panels and placeholders aren't directly related to which type of
layout
> you want. They can be used in both for the same purpose.
> Panels are basically used for grouping controls. That way if you want to
> make a group of controls invisible, you can make the panel they are in
> invisible, thus making everything inside it invisible. A Panel basically
is
> a 'div' tag once rendered in HTML.
> A placeholder can be handy when you need to dynamically load controls into
> specific locations.
> For example, if you need to add a textbox at runtime, but you don't want
to
> add it to end of the Controls collection - but in a specific location in
the
> middle of the page. By adding it to the Controls collection of a
> placeholder - you are basically just putting your textbox in the place
> holder's place. The placeholder may have multiple controls in it.
> But again, neitehr of these controls are directly related to the layout
type
> of the page.
> "SStory >" <Shane_Story@.online.msn.com <remove the 'online.' to send me
> mail> wrote in message news:OGABAbsVDHA.1832@.TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > Thanks--my problems exactly,
> > but you could you explain to me if I should use panels or placeholders
and
> > exatly what those are and how they work...
> > I am still vague on it all.
> > Thanks for everything...
> > Shane
> > "Marina" <zlatkinam@.nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:#zj44GsVDHA.2328@.TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > > I dislike grid layout.
> > > > The biggest problem, is that if you have dynamicly sized controls (e.g
a
> > > grid), you can't know in advance how much space you may need for it. A
> > grid
> > > may have 3 rows or 30. How do you know where to put the controls that
> are
> > > supposed to go underneath it?
> > > > Another thing is that IE has issues with properly interpreting
absolute
> > > positioning under certain conditions.
> > > > To get proper layout, you can use tables, or whatever elements you
> require
> > > to create your page.
> > > > To convert what you have now, change the form to FlowLayous. You will
> > have
> > > to redrag all your controls, in order for them to lose all the
absolute
> > > positioning information. So just select a control, and drag it
> elsewhere
> > on
> > > the form - that should do it. Alternatively, you can switch to HTML
> view,
> > > and delete everything in they 'style' attribute of each control that
> > refers
> > > to its position.
> > > > "SStory >" <Shane_Story@.online.msn.com <remove the 'online.' to send
me
> > > mail> wrote in message news:upOqcJrVDHA.2896@.tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > > > I am new to ASP.NET, but not to ASP or Visual Basic.
> > > > I have read much of ASP.NET unleashed first addition. It all looks
> > neat,
> > > > but I don't understand several things.
> > > > > > One thing in particular is that I laid out all of my controls on a
> form
> > > that
> > > > took a long time to set up--lots of fields. I did this with grid
> layout
> > > on.
> > > > So this makes absolute positioning, which is cool, but..
> > > > > > * If the user changes the browser text size the text overruns other
> > items
> > > > * There is no way it seems to use a validation summary control or
add
> > > > includeheaders to the top because it won't move the page down.
> > > > > > Am I missing something?
> > > > > > Do most people use the grid layout or not?
> > > > > > If I should use flow layout instead, then do I need to use tables
and
> > such
> > > > or does the IDE make them for me?
> > > > > > Also if I should have used flow layout, then how do I convert my
> > existing
> > > > form to flow layout so that it will move it down for things above
like
> > the
> > > > validationsummary, etc.?
> > > > > > Are usercontrols, etc only good if you are in flow mode?
> > > > > > Please give me a general overview of this and how I should go about
> it.
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Shane
> > > > > >
Marina,

I seem to have problems with a very long, form.. It is nicely formating
using the grid layout.
Putting it into table mode would be a lot of reworking

For example, it is setup more like an adobe acrobat form

has fields and above each field, what is in the field. At present it is
nicely aligned unless someone decided to make their browser text bigger than
medium.

I wanted to move it all down, but there seems to be no easy way to do that
in the IDE.
I don't know how to get nice positioning without abs. positioning, but don'
t know how to get it flowing right with it.
I think maybe some pages benifit from grid layout--forms for example, and
other's don't..

Still trying to catch on. I have tried panels. I tried to just copy from
the form and past into a panel , but no luck.

Thanks...

Looks like there would be a site dealing with such issues...instead of just
code issues.

"Marina" <zlatkinam@.nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Of$qmlsVDHA.3376@.tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Both panels and placeholders aren't directly related to which type of
layout
> you want. They can be used in both for the same purpose.
> Panels are basically used for grouping controls. That way if you want to
> make a group of controls invisible, you can make the panel they are in
> invisible, thus making everything inside it invisible. A Panel basically
is
> a 'div' tag once rendered in HTML.
> A placeholder can be handy when you need to dynamically load controls into
> specific locations.
> For example, if you need to add a textbox at runtime, but you don't want
to
> add it to end of the Controls collection - but in a specific location in
the
> middle of the page. By adding it to the Controls collection of a
> placeholder - you are basically just putting your textbox in the place
> holder's place. The placeholder may have multiple controls in it.
> But again, neitehr of these controls are directly related to the layout
type
> of the page.
> "SStory >" <Shane_Story@.online.msn.com <remove the 'online.' to send me
> mail> wrote in message news:OGABAbsVDHA.1832@.TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > Thanks--my problems exactly,
> > but you could you explain to me if I should use panels or placeholders
and
> > exatly what those are and how they work...
> > I am still vague on it all.
> > Thanks for everything...
> > Shane
> > "Marina" <zlatkinam@.nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:#zj44GsVDHA.2328@.TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > > I dislike grid layout.
> > > > The biggest problem, is that if you have dynamicly sized controls (e.g
a
> > > grid), you can't know in advance how much space you may need for it. A
> > grid
> > > may have 3 rows or 30. How do you know where to put the controls that
> are
> > > supposed to go underneath it?
> > > > Another thing is that IE has issues with properly interpreting
absolute
> > > positioning under certain conditions.
> > > > To get proper layout, you can use tables, or whatever elements you
> require
> > > to create your page.
> > > > To convert what you have now, change the form to FlowLayous. You will
> > have
> > > to redrag all your controls, in order for them to lose all the
absolute
> > > positioning information. So just select a control, and drag it
> elsewhere
> > on
> > > the form - that should do it. Alternatively, you can switch to HTML
> view,
> > > and delete everything in they 'style' attribute of each control that
> > refers
> > > to its position.
> > > > "SStory >" <Shane_Story@.online.msn.com <remove the 'online.' to send
me
> > > mail> wrote in message news:upOqcJrVDHA.2896@.tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > > > I am new to ASP.NET, but not to ASP or Visual Basic.
> > > > I have read much of ASP.NET unleashed first addition. It all looks
> > neat,
> > > > but I don't understand several things.
> > > > > > One thing in particular is that I laid out all of my controls on a
> form
> > > that
> > > > took a long time to set up--lots of fields. I did this with grid
> layout
> > > on.
> > > > So this makes absolute positioning, which is cool, but..
> > > > > > * If the user changes the browser text size the text overruns other
> > items
> > > > * There is no way it seems to use a validation summary control or
add
> > > > includeheaders to the top because it won't move the page down.
> > > > > > Am I missing something?
> > > > > > Do most people use the grid layout or not?
> > > > > > If I should use flow layout instead, then do I need to use tables
and
> > such
> > > > or does the IDE make them for me?
> > > > > > Also if I should have used flow layout, then how do I convert my
> > existing
> > > > form to flow layout so that it will move it down for things above
like
> > the
> > > > validationsummary, etc.?
> > > > > > Are usercontrols, etc only good if you are in flow mode?
> > > > > > Please give me a general overview of this and how I should go about
> it.
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Shane
> > > > > >