an anti microsoft debate. Open Source Apache/PHP vs MS .NET technologies. I
ran into this article from a link of a link of a link on another weblog. I
have actually been interested with .net ever since "it came out" late
2001(or whenver that was). It sounded revolutionary. I've read a book
"understanding .net" and have read other sites for regular reading liesure
just to understand more and kind of stay up to date about things
Anyways, I had written a bunch of other thoughts down trying to answer my
own questions, but I didn't want to sound like a complete fool so here it is
in short.
How do you argue IIS Security issues since "everyone" seems to believe it's
an accident waiting to happen just having IIS installed.
And also, their argument of .net being slower and more memory intensive
because "more code is needed to be compiled/executed to produce the same
output as simple php code". It sounds like it would make sense but I don't
know.
http://otn.oracle.com/pub/articles/hull_asp.htmlHey Scooby,
Here's a link that you might find helpful:
http://asp.net/whitepaper/whyaspnet...index=0&tabid=1
Concerning the Web server, IIS 6 is the most secure Web server available.
A recent independent study concluded that Windows Server 2003 is the most
secure operating system available today. If you really want to make it
rock solid, make sure you understand it properly and secure it properly.
Here's a link:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/se.../secmod124.mspx
I think you'll find that one of the number one benefits of going with a
Microsoft solution is the support you get, whether from our MVPs,
employees, and customers here in the newsgroup, or via our PSS Support
Engineers. Our support is the best in the industry, bar none.
Another great reason to choose ASP.NET is coming down the pipe; ASP.NET
2.0. ASP.NET is already so
that no one can touch it. ASP.NET 2.0 islight years beyond what you use today.
I think our story is very good. I think those who are realistic in their
approach and are not persuaded by preexisting bias agree.
Jim Cheshire [MSFT]
MCP+I, MCSE, MCSD, MCDBA
Microsoft Developer Support
jamesche@.online.microsoft.com
This post is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties and confers no rights.
--
>From: "Scooby Doo" <scoobyatdoothedew.com>
>Subject: newbie -how do you defend your decision?
>Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 15:01:12 -0700
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>As a new commer (hobbyist) this field, it's pretty hard not to get caught
in
>an anti microsoft debate. Open Source Apache/PHP vs MS .NET technologies. I
>ran into this article from a link of a link of a link on another weblog. I
>have actually been interested with .net ever since "it came out" late
>2001(or whenver that was). It sounded revolutionary. I've read a book
>"understanding .net" and have read other sites for regular reading liesure
>just to understand more and kind of stay up to date about things
>Anyways, I had written a bunch of other thoughts down trying to answer my
>own questions, but I didn't want to sound like a complete fool so here it
is
>in short.
>How do you argue IIS Security issues since "everyone" seems to believe it's
>an accident waiting to happen just having IIS installed.
>And also, their argument of .net being slower and more memory intensive
>because "more code is needed to be compiled/executed to produce the same
>output as simple php code". It sounds like it would make sense but I don't
>know.
>http://otn.oracle.com/pub/articles/hull_asp.html
>
>
"more code is needed to be compiled/executed to produce the same
>output as simple php code".
u sure about that ? theres sooooooooo many things in .Net that makes dev so
fast and easy compare to php and the rest... with most of the plumbing code
done already, one just needs to concentrate on the biz logic... displaying
data onto grids and doing validations is a breeze now..
"Scooby Doo" <scoobyatdoothedew.com> wrote in message
news:e38TkvdbEHA.636@.TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> As a new commer (hobbyist) this field, it's pretty hard not to get caught
in
> an anti microsoft debate. Open Source Apache/PHP vs MS .NET technologies.
I
> ran into this article from a link of a link of a link on another weblog. I
> have actually been interested with .net ever since "it came out" late
> 2001(or whenver that was). It sounded revolutionary. I've read a book
> "understanding .net" and have read other sites for regular reading liesure
> just to understand more and kind of stay up to date about things
> Anyways, I had written a bunch of other thoughts down trying to answer my
> own questions, but I didn't want to sound like a complete fool so here it
is
> in short.
> How do you argue IIS Security issues since "everyone" seems to believe
it's
> an accident waiting to happen just having IIS installed.
> And also, their argument of .net being slower and more memory intensive
> because "more code is needed to be compiled/executed to produce the same
> output as simple php code". It sounds like it would make sense but I don't
> know.
> http://otn.oracle.com/pub/articles/hull_asp.html
>
>
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. (well i'd like to think it is.. )
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.723 / Virus Database: 479 - Release Date: 19/07/2004
You say that it's pretty hard not to get caught in an anti microsoft debate.
Well, I suppose if you think that what people have to say is important, you
might. But people say all kinds of things, and there are all kinds of people
in the world. They all think (and say) just about everything under the sun.
What is the use of hearing it all?
Microsoft isn't going to rise or fall based upon the musings of an
overly-talkative public. They will rise and fall based upon a single fact:
How many people buy their products? That is what they base their business
decisions upon. Apparently, they make good ones.
You and I will not rise or fall based upon the musings of an
overly-talkative public. You and I will rise or fall based upon the
decisions we make. None of the opinion-makers will reap the reward of my
decisions. Therefore, none of them will help me make them.
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
.Net Developer
Microsoft MVP
Big things are made up
of lots of little things.
"Scooby Doo" <scoobyatdoothedew.com> wrote in message
news:e38TkvdbEHA.636@.TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> As a new commer (hobbyist) this field, it's pretty hard not to get caught
in
> an anti microsoft debate. Open Source Apache/PHP vs MS .NET technologies.
I
> ran into this article from a link of a link of a link on another weblog. I
> have actually been interested with .net ever since "it came out" late
> 2001(or whenver that was). It sounded revolutionary. I've read a book
> "understanding .net" and have read other sites for regular reading liesure
> just to understand more and kind of stay up to date about things
> Anyways, I had written a bunch of other thoughts down trying to answer my
> own questions, but I didn't want to sound like a complete fool so here it
is
> in short.
> How do you argue IIS Security issues since "everyone" seems to believe
it's
> an accident waiting to happen just having IIS installed.
> And also, their argument of .net being slower and more memory intensive
> because "more code is needed to be compiled/executed to produce the same
> output as simple php code". It sounds like it would make sense but I don't
> know.
> http://otn.oracle.com/pub/articles/hull_asp.html
>
>
'How do you defend your decision?'
In the IIS vs apache instance, it can be difficult. I would side with ongoi
ng active support and ease of use. Problems are known and MS works to ID pr
oblems before they are exploited. The spotty reputation IIS has received ma
y be the best argument for
going with it. One is reasonably confident MS is allocating substantial res
ources to the task. Nobody I know (besides anti-virus companies) provides m
onthly security updates except for MS. Some would say that is evidence of t
he dodginess of the product
. It is also evidence of the depth of corporate support. Is anybody else (
other than Anti-virus companies) as proactive in addressing emerging securit
y problems? Which product is likely to improve more over the next 18 months
? At this point, the rate
of improvement of MS products probably exceeds any differential in security
or quality between the two.
If this is a real argument, locate the recent article citing lower true oper
ating costs for Windows products (I haven't read it and as a 'sweat equity'
kind of a guy, would probably discount it somewhat, but it is out there).
Technical issues aside for a moment....
Frequently the choice between platforms is not a technical one(though it sho
uld be). It is usually political or business. Either somebody has a cost b
reakdown supporting one alternative or the other, or they have a body of tec
hnical trivia (think sound
bites) they will deploy to support their previously formed opinion. Usually
its the old "We have always done it that way" argument. Occasionally it is
"We have never done it that way".
If you are certain of your decision, tell them why you took it. Be specific
and brief. Emphasize that it was your choice to make. You made it because
it was the best way to go (in your opinion) but if the organization wants t
o go another way, you are r
eady to make it work.
If you or I worked for MS, we would fall on our swords to defend the product
/platform/paradigm. The MS people here show us how that can be done. But w
e don't work for MS. We work for companies that sell insurance or make widg
ets. They care about their
product and their business. That's what they want us to to defend, support
and advance. As a practical matter, that is all that counts.
They use to say you can't get fired choosing IBM. I do know of people fired
for choosing IBM. Choose your hill to die on with care.
Of course, if this is just a slap fight between two nerds, then go at it and
have fun with it. ;)
mklapp
"Kevin Spencer" wrote:
> You say that it's pretty hard not to get caught in an anti microsoft debat
e.
> Well, I suppose if you think that what people have to say is important, yo
u
> might. But people say all kinds of things, and there are all kinds of peop
le
> in the world. They all think (and say) just about everything under the sun
.
> What is the use of hearing it all?
> Microsoft isn't going to rise or fall based upon the musings of an
> overly-talkative public. They will rise and fall based upon a single fact:
> How many people buy their products? That is what they base their business
> decisions upon. Apparently, they make good ones.
> You and I will not rise or fall based upon the musings of an
> overly-talkative public. You and I will rise or fall based upon the
> decisions we make. None of the opinion-makers will reap the reward of my
> decisions. Therefore, none of them will help me make them.
> --
> HTH,
> Kevin Spencer
> ..Net Developer
> Microsoft MVP
> Big things are made up
> of lots of little things.
> "Scooby Doo" <scoobyatdoothedew.com> wrote in message
> news:e38TkvdbEHA.636@.TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> in
> I
> is
> it's
>
>
Mike, I was simply paraphrasing a quote from somewhere in that article. It
makes sense if you take the quote at face value, but I've heard about
um..."controls" which sound pretty powerful. Probably what you were
suggesting.
Kevin, it's not that I care about what people say. Regarding standard MS
hatred/monopoly crap, I laugh at people, don't even go there. I plaud MS for
finding a successful business model. But this isn't about me fitting into a
crowd/getting accepted so you can't bash me for "investigating".
Regarding arguments or being stuck on windows if you choose .net etc, I've
never thought about that kind of stuff. I've never really cared, or thought
about being "stuck" on a platform, after all the client doesn't know. They
just use a browser. I guess this would only be relevant in bigger business
situations, where the application is much larger then website, if you know
what I mean. The only cost to me is maybe a couple more bucks for windows
hosting, and VS, but I've seen free resources out there, webmatrix, and
sharpdevelop.
> Kevin, it's not that I care about what people say. Regarding standard MS
> hatred/monopoly crap, I laugh at people, don't even go there. I plaud MS
for
> finding a successful business model. But this isn't about me fitting into
a
> crowd/getting accepted so you can't bash me for "investigating".
I wasn't bashing you. There is a lot of debate going on out there, and quite
a few people who seem to want to know everyone's opinions about technology.
I was pointing out that such opinions are worth what they cost - nothing. I
just hate to see people wasting their time to find out what the prevailing
winds are. You're free to do so, though, if it pleases you.
BTW, if you didn't care what people say, why would you ask? ;-)
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
.Net Developer
Microsoft MVP
Big things are made up
of lots of little things.
"Scooby Doo" <scoobyatdoothedew.com> wrote in message
news:#w$cb4nbEHA.3420@.TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Mike, I was simply paraphrasing a quote from somewhere in that article. It
> makes sense if you take the quote at face value, but I've heard about
> um..."controls" which sound pretty powerful. Probably what you were
> suggesting.
> Kevin, it's not that I care about what people say. Regarding standard MS
> hatred/monopoly crap, I laugh at people, don't even go there. I plaud MS
for
> finding a successful business model. But this isn't about me fitting into
a
> crowd/getting accepted so you can't bash me for "investigating".
> Regarding arguments or being stuck on windows if you choose .net etc, I've
> never thought about that kind of stuff. I've never really cared, or
thought
> about being "stuck" on a platform, after all the client doesn't know. They
> just use a browser. I guess this would only be relevant in bigger business
> situations, where the application is much larger then website, if you know
> what I mean. The only cost to me is maybe a couple more bucks for windows
> hosting, and VS, but I've seen free resources out there, webmatrix, and
> sharpdevelop.
>
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